Wagenknecht at Maischberger: “The question is not tofu or meatloaf, but war or peace”

On Tuesday evening, "Maischberger" (almost) achieved what only Markus Söder usually manages: The conversation began with Leberkäse and tofu, and ended with tofu and meatloaf, too. And the reason for this was, of course, the Bavarian Minister-President.

But let's start from the beginning: The panel discussion, which initially included top chef Christian Rach, journalist Laura Kipfelsberger, and Bild's deputy editor-in-chief Paul Ronzheimer, was actually about the new cabinet of the CDU/CSU. During the introduction of the CSU ministers, Söder once again attracted attention with his pithy remarks: "Instead of the green-vegan Özdemir, we're now going to have the black butcher," he said of the new, designated Agriculture Minister Alois Reiner.

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"That's a typical Söder," Rach commented, before accusing the CSU politician of having "no clue" about tofu. "There's wonderful tofu from Bavaria (...) Dear Mr. Söder, please come by sometime, I'll bring you a wonderful dish with tofu." And Kipfelsberger noted that people also needed to be picked up between the Leberkäse and the tofu: "I believe that in these times we have other problems than constantly fighting these culture wars."

It was a good thing that the conversation then shifted from food to politics – including the conversation between climate activist Luisa Neubauer and CDU member Philipp Amthor, the designated State Secretary in the Federal Ministry for Digital Affairs. Although both disagreed on climate protection and its implementation by the future federal government – ​​unsurprisingly – they exchanged their arguments with some respect and used informal language ("We already know each other from a few talk shows").

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Neubauer appealed to Amthor's party, also looking back on the CDU/CSU's vote with the AfD in the Bundestag, "that we need you, that you get your party under control." As evidence to the contrary, she cited not only the vote but also statements by Jens Spahn, who is now set to become parliamentary group leader and who, among other things, said in a "Bild" interview that the AfD should be dealt with "like any other opposition party."

Agreed that they disagree: Philipp Amthor, CDU (designated State Secretary in the Digital Ministry), and Luisa Neubauer (climate protection activist, Fridays for Future) at "Maischberger".

Source: WDR/Dirk Bohm

Amthor disagreed: "What Jens Spahn said is neither a scandal nor a slip-up." It quickly became clear: While some interesting arguments were exchanged, at least in part, the two sides failed to reach a consensus on the substance. Especially since Amthor occasionally resorted to pithy remarks à la Söder: "The Robert Habeck Handbook for Germany as a Business Location is not a bestseller," he said, for example, after the discussion once again revolved around the heating law and the extent to which it had damaged support for climate protection measures.

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Sahra Wagenknecht, party leader of the BSW, was also invited to a one-on-one discussion at the end of the program – she was answering questions in a television interview for the first time since her defeat in the federal election (her party failed to clear the five percent hurdle), even though she barely gave presenter Maischberger a chance to speak at times.

Wagenknecht apparently wasn't deterred by journalist Ronzheimer's previous verdict ("I'm surprised Ms. Wagenknecht hasn't resigned yet"). She spoke about "systematic counting errors" in the election and the election review complaint she had filed, but also about the fact that the BSW had lost its profile after its initial successes in state elections.

Her explanation for this: In some states, she hadn't been able to deliver on some of her promises. She also rejected criticism from within her own party—for example, from Steffen Schütz of the Thuringian BSW state association, who accused her of wanting to dictate too much what is good and right—with the same profile: "In a party, the range of opinion is limited because a party needs a profile."

She is apparently not thinking about giving up and explained this in Söder-like fashion: her party is needed, “the question is not tofu or meatloaf, but war or peace.”

These could have been famous last words, at least for this show, but at the end, Wagenknecht dodged Maischberger's question about whether she was considering resigning. She didn't say "yes" or "no," but instead said: "I won't continue indefinitely, but only until I can be sure that we have established a party that will survive in this country."